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Response to KURT CAMPBELL interview
PAUL Robert you first, what did you take out of the interview with the Assistant Secretary of State for our region?
ROBERT PATMAN
- Political
Analyst
I think three quick things, firstly I think Kurt Campbell
indicated that America has basically embarked upon a new global
strategy. It was interesting when the question of competition
with China was raised he dismissed that and said the two countries
were interdependent, America couldn't solve any of the key problems
facing it whether it be climate change or anything else about
China, the second thing is the emphasis on the Asia Pacific region
he stressed in the interview that Mr Obama has a close association
with the region in a way that other presidents didn't.
PAUL The first Asia Pacific President yes. No I think you're right there's a complete movement away from this unilateral way of working which of course is what the Nobel Committee was talking about when they awarded the Peace Prize to Obama. What did you see up there, you were up there for the week, what did you pick up?
CRAIG NORGATE
- Company Director
Yeah well it was interesting Paul we had Kurt at our
opening function, and whilst he was a little bit uncomfortable with
Guyon in the interview he was very relaxed and warm and open whilst
giving exactly the same messages to us, and it wasn't superficial
there was a real depth and substance to what he was saying.
Now I think we've moved from having the Americans being polite to
us six or seven years ago, to genuinely feeling warm about us and
seeing us as part of their close friends in terms of this
region.
PAUL You felt a genuine warmth?
CRAIG Absolutely.
PAUL So what did you take from that interview, I mean what did Kurt Campbell tell you at the function in Washington when he came, the cocktail party?
CRAIG His own intent because he's only just moved into this role I think he's really thought through what he wants to achieve and you know being the key man from the State Department in the region clearly I think we're getting a very strong message that what he said about Obama is actually felt by the rest of the administration as well.
PAUL I'll talk about military ties shortly, here's what when Guyon asked him about so we can fight with you but we can't train with you, here's what he said about that.
Guyon: 'Does it strike you as absurd that our two countries can fight on battlefields together but not train together?
Kurt Campbell: 'It does.
Guyon: 'What are you doing about it?
Kurt: 'We're in the midst of a major review right now, I'd like to see the United States and New Zealand recognise some of the new parameters of the global environment that we're facing.'
PAUL So what do you make of that Army Major?
RON MARK - Former New Zealand First MP
Well it's about time, I've gotta say right now isn't
it amazing back in 2001 when the SAS Major John McNutt was killed
whilst training with American forces in Kuwait, the Prime Minister
of the day when asked whether he would be replaced said she'd seen
no evidence to suggest that the use of the Special Air Services in
effect of foreign policy at all, and here we have now a huge shift
and America's attitude towards its defence relations with New
Zealand. I wonder how much of that is as a result of the
growing discussions between Australia and New Zealand and the
realisation that we can't have an ANZUS type ready reaction force
if we can't train with the Americans and with Australians.
PAUL But we could have an ANZAC one which the Americans have never liked and we go back to 1944, that's right.
ROBERT I think as Ron says I think the development of the relationship between Australia and New Zealand are symptomatic of a deeper trend internationally where we're basically all in the same boat, countries are interdependent, and I think Mr Obama's historic role is not only to produce policies that address that interdependence but also take America along with him in embarking upon this route, so I think yes a very significant interview indeed.
PAUL He also indicated quite a shrewd understanding of us actually Kurt Campbell, when he talked about our pacifist streak. Here's what he said.
Kurt: 'The truth is that New Zealand has in recent years has an important you know sort of pacifist streak in some respects, however they're pretty good in a fight.'
PAUL You'd like that.
RON I think what he probably fails to understand or didn't articulate correctly is that New Zealand has participated in every major war, we've participated in every military emergency, however they've described it they have been wars, we were there in Iraq, we've been in Iraq, we've been in Afghanistan since the beginning and so I think it's a little bit on the nose to be saying that we have a pacifist role, what we are wary of as a nation is the deployment of our troops to purposes that have no clear objective, no clear exit policy, and where we suffer exorbitant losses or unjustifiable losses for no real purpose at the end of the day.
PAUL We haven't necessarily suffered the losses in Afghanistan certainly losses are being suffered and there's no exit or not clear strategy.
ROBERT Yes I think Ron Mark's absolutely right, because one of the key things about I think Kurt Campbell's speech although he was hesitant in his interview although he says it's conceded was the fact that America has shifted on the New Zealand US relationship, he said it was self imposed exile. Consecutive New Zealand governments whether they be National or Labour always wanted to have close relationship with the United States.
PAUL It shows how badly we were hurt by the nuclear ships policy 25 years ago, didn't he say that in the interview New Zealand was hurt, New Zealand was damaged, didn't he say that? Anyway free trade, what do you make of what's happening there?
CRAIG Paul I think what came out of Kurt's interview and certainly what we picked up in the following two days is that there's a real understanding from the Americans about what's going to drive a global economy in the next 50 years, it is going to be Asia and I do see New Zealand as being a very friendly place in Asia and the trans Pacific partnership is a very very good trade agreement, a pure trade agreement, we have four countries now looking at joining it not just the US, it's on hold waiting for the US to just reaffirm their commitment to that and I think he was alluding to that at the end of his comments.
PAUL When it comes to free trade with the States can we ever really defeat the power of those agricultural lobbies, I mean what did the Australians actually end up in their Free Trade Agreement in terms of agricultural access?
CRAIG They got started Paul I think is the most significant thing, people can say that there wasn't a lot of access for agriculture but there was a time frame over which they did get very good access, and that clock's been ticking now for three years and we're behind, so we need it.
ROBERT I think just building on what Craig said, I think the important thing here is that when New Zealand became the first western country to negotiate a Free Trade Agreement with China it did catch policy makers' attention in Washington, it reinforced in their eyes that this administration has indicated it's very interested in the Asia Pacific region, it wants a close constructive relationship with Beijing, New Zealand I think because of its actions in the diplomatic front has increased its utility to Washington.
RON And I'm not blind to the fact that people have been concerned, although they have not articulated it for diplomatic reasons, they are concerned about the growing influence of China in the South Pacific and in South East Asia, you know New Zealand has been dealing with the issues of Bougainville of the Solomons for decades now and there are areas within the South Pacific that are volatile that are difficult and between Australia and New Zealand we have been working on those issues, keeping the lid on them and I think it's about time actually that America actually chose to ....
PAUL I suppose that perhaps on previous administrations in Asia Pacific what he says this is the first Asia Pacific presidency, that the Solomons and Bougainville might not have been too much on the American radar, but can I just ask you what will we get, Kurt Campbell was very vague on this when Guyon said so what do we get for going back into Afghanistan, will we get, what will we get?
RON Well I think hopefully the first thing we'll get will be the sale of some Sky Hawks which they've been holding up for bureaucratic reasons and obviously diplomatic reasons as well. I think the sharing of intelligence and the closer operation of our Defence Forces in working together will only enhance their ability to deploy operationally, it'll make it easier for Australia and for years we've had the nonsense where we can train with the Australians but we get certain briefings and where we can get certain demonstrations and we get involved in certain things and suddenly the Australians have to say oh well you Kiwis can't see this, you can't partake in this because of course you're not part of the ANZUS agreement, it's just the Australians and Americans.
PAUL Now Craig we've gotta wind this up, but you were at Washington, you were obviously delighted by the warmth you felt there, you referred to him as Kurt, what do you expect to get at APEC, what are you really expecting in terms of trade, not just singular bilateral New Zealand US Free Trade Agreement but to this group of nations?
CRAIG Yeah well clearly Kurt was alluding to someone else when I suspect that they've already decided what that's gonna be which is why he didn't want to speak about it too much, so we didn't get any more insight into that, and in fact the comments he made in the interview probably go a little further than what we got in Washington.
