Q+A: Panel discusses interview with Police Minister Judith Collins (7:32) 

Source: Q+A

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Response to Judith Collins interview

PAUL Welcome back to Q+A, where with the panel after Judith Collins.  Any concerns about those extended powers for the Police and so many other groups as well.  Are you bothered?

SUE Me, I'm extremely bothered, I mean this is heading straight down the road towards a Police state, and one of the biggest long term threats I think our country and countries around the world face in the wake of what's going to happen with recession and the impacts of climate change and wars over things like water and oil, is I think the danger of the rise of fascism.  Now the sort of powers that this government is extending to the Police and to many other bodies, to me lay the groundwork for a not so democratically minded government as we have at the moment, to go down that track.

PAUL I understand so, but we're up against evil evil people, evil manipulative greedy nasty people.

SUE But we have to look at the human rights and the legal rights of the whole population and not just focus in because you can always take that as far as you like, and fascist states do, take it to he ultimate point.  We're after criminals, they call it criminals, often they'll be political people like some of us that they'll be after and that really scares me.

PAUL I think somebody's made the point this week that the right to silence is now being denied to three old nuns who might be protesting about the treatment of whales.

SUE Exactly.

PAUL Don Brash are you worried by the extension of these powers to the Police and to other agencies?

DON This is not a territory I'm very familiar with Paul to be frank, but I take the Minister's point that this is something which has been in gestation for five years, the Law Commission's been working on this, the Deputy Chairman of the Law Commission pointed out that this is - as the Minister said - a codification of existing powers under one piece of legislation.

PAUL Extension.

DON Well as I say, he claimed it was not.

PAUL The Pork Industry Board can now come into your premises get all your IT records, detain you, rub you down, search you, use reasonable force.

DON I'm quoting on they Deputy Chair of the Royal Commission, who says there are not additional powers in this law, this is codification of existing powers, whether that's right or not I don't know.

THERESE I think you need to put it - not just look at any one of these pieces of legislation but put you know the three different areas all together, and look in a democracy it's a careful balancing act about protecting the rights of the individual and the good of the whole, and we have a Bill of Rights, and we have signed up to conventions, international conventions about these rights.

PAUL Once the Police get busy with you, process begins.  You could be entirely innocent and then you've gotta start fighting the Police, you've gotta through process.

THERESE Well the point I was gonna make Paul is that actually the Attorney General, Chris Finlayson, actually signalled that in particular the DNA the sampling DNA piece of legislation is in conflict with our Bill of Rights.

PAUL He thought it was.

THERESE Well inconsistent, and the point is that we need to take that seriously.  When we hear that from the Attorney General that something is inconsistent with the Bill of Rights that is important, and let's be specific there - what it means is the problem was lack of judicial warrant and so when we're inconsistent with the Bill of Rights I think the point then becomes we need to be really careful that we keep an eye on it, that it is carefully monitored and that we look back at it say in four or five years time and see if the Police are overreaching their powers.

PAUL Because what we are doing really is giving so much judgement now to the Police that used to be provided by the court.

SUE And of course Ms Collins makes it sound as though we should have endless and total faith in our Police's ability and willingness and capacity to follow the rules, and we know very well...

PAUL Of course you do.  But there is an appetite to do something about the gangs though isn't there?

THERESE I think these measures will be politically popular, I do think they will be politically popular.

PAUL Alright, the week ahead, we are looking at an announcement on the Foreshore and Seabed Act this coming Wednesday, what do you think we might see Don?

DON Paul, I don't know frankly.  I think back in 2004 when I was in politics, I think the National Party got it wrong, I think we should have in fact supported the right of iwi to go to the High Court, as I say I think we made that mistake, but we're not there now, we've actually got an act in place, clearly the government is committed to getting rid of that act, but what they put in place instead of it I do not know.  It's a very tough political issue.

PAUL So Iwi Kiwi was wrong?

DON No no, I don't for a moment think that.

PAUL Do you think the price though that the Maori Party got for the coalition, the price must be repeal?

SUE Yes absolutely, but what's scaring me about this is (a) what will the Maori Party get beyond repeal, what will they actually get, and secondly what are they selling off.  I mean I think the worst thing the Maori Party's done yet has been their support for the ACC legislation that started last week.  They are selling out totally their own people.

DON To the Select Committee Sue, to Select Committee only.

SUE I truly hope that it doesn't go past there, but that an what happened with the Maori representation on the Auckland Super City Council here, those two things have really undermined the credibility of the Maori Party.

PAUL No the Maori Party was formed because of the Foreshore and Seabed Act.

SUE So what are they going to get, it's very interesting to see.

PAUL Therese what do you think they're going to get?

THERESE I don't know either, is it going to be the right to go and test it in the courts, or more likely I think probably a political solution.  This is I think probably the most important purely political issue that this government is going to face, and it is the bottom line for the Maori Party, extremely important, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in terms of Maori Party supporters, National Party supporters, a lot of people who liked your Orewa speech, it'll be a real test I think of political leadership in this new government.

PAUL We shall see what we shall see, and Sue your hair was beautiful in your valedictory speech, I have to say to you.

THERESE And your speech was beautiful as well.