Greg Boyed: Turning one last time to our panel - Raymond Miller, Josie Pagani and Matthew Hooton. He made a bit of a dig at David Shearer there. What did you make of what he said?
Josie Pagani - Political Commentator: As the token woman here, I was thinking I should probably take over.
Greg: (To Raymond and Matthew) Well, you were nodding off in between.
Josie: You guys can just leave, and I'll say some intelligent comments.
Greg: Go on, then. He did have a bit of a dig at David Shearer.
Matthew Hooton - Political Consultant: I think in terms of measuring the system as a whole, he's absolutely right that a random sample is better than surveying everyone. But this is about individual kids -
Dr Raymond Miller - Political Scientist: I have to confess, I'm one of the social scientists he's talking about, and I didn't think about a random sample. So obviously my IQ is something I need to work on.
Josie: I think what's wonderful about this, though, is the so-called Flynn Effect. It's extremely hopeful. He set out in the '60s to prove that black people weren't less intelligent than white people, that women aren't less intelligent than men and that there isn't a biological drive that makes us different. So it's extremely hopeful. Not only can people actually improve their IQ between races and gender, personally we can improve our IQ over a lifetime, which is wonderful. Hopeful.
Greg: All right, we will leave it there. Thank you to all three of you.