No one leader appeared to out-perform the rest as the minor
parties made their case for votes in the ONE News Election 08
Leaders' Debate on Sunday night.
The six minor party leaders debated the economy, the anti-smacking
law and the plight of children living below the poverty line in
what was a generally polite 90-minute exchange.
Political commentator Therese Arseneau says with a shortage of
money to back up promises, it was difficult for one leader to stand
out, as United Fututre leader Peter Dunne did in 2002.
And a TVNZ poll taken following the "kingmakers" debate, asking if
MMP should be retained, had 75% disagree.
The leaders of the six minor parties said they would abide by a
binding MMP-type referendum in the debate.
Hosted by presenter Mark Sainsbury, leaders from the Green Party,
Maori Party, New Zealand First, Act, UnitedFuture and the
Progressives effectively agreed to a referendum that could see them
lose representation.
Jeanette Fitzimons said proportional representation is working
around the world and a vote for the Greens would not be a vote to
prop up any other party. The party co-leader said the Greens have
always believed in telling the public who they will work with after
the election and have been "totally upfront, honest and
transparent".
The Maori Party has been touted as a possible kingmaker after the
election and Tariana Turia said she would expect support for a
private members bill that would entrench the Maori seats. Turia
said "everything is a negotiated position" but she doesn't want to
endure the tyranny of the majority.
The Maori Party co-leader said it is difficult to be asked in the
public arena what their bottom line is. She said the most important
thing is to establish a relationship with other parties and all
policies can be talked through if the relationship is based on
trust.
Surprisingly Act leader Rodney Hide said he would support
entrenching the Maori seats to put them in line with the general
seats. He said he would be comfortable working with the Maori Party
but said Act would not work in a government with New Zealand First
leader Winston Peters.
Peters said there is no future in a "separatist path" and MMP has
proven Maori don't need Maori seats. Peters would not rule out
working with anyone after the election and said given the grave
economic situation it was not the time for "petty differences". He
said Maoridom needs to be convinced MMP is going to work for
them.
He said to predict this far out who you are going to work with is
"a very big mistake" and it is important not to rush to judgement.
Peters said the country is in dire straights and he will work with
anyone to try to improve the situation.
Peter Dunne defended claims he has jumped ship, saying UnitedFuture
signed on with Labour for a three year deal and the party has
honoured that deal. He said he believes National is the best party
to take New Zealand forward and his party's tax and infrastructure
policies would not be viable in a Labour-led government.
Progressives leader Jim Anderton said rather than bottom lines his
party preferred to concentrate on top lines such as establishing a
New Zealand bank and ensuring its future. Anderton said their
policies were too far apart to work with National or Act.
Crime
All the minor party leaders agreed New Zealand has a major problem
with poverty and related crime. Turia acknowledged that Maori are
disproportionately represented in the statistics. She said it is
critically important to address the issues that cause the offending
such as alcohol and drug offending and poverty issues.
Turia said the Maori Party wants young people working and
participating in society. She said police numbers won't make a
difference and people need to be able to read, write and count. She
said an aspirational goal of the Maori Party would be to see an end
of the dole because people need to work to feel good about
themselves. Turia said "22% of our young people are unemployed and
that can't continue".
Act was sticking to its policy on violent crime of three strikes
and you're out. Hide said the government's number one job is to
keep citizens safe. He supported Turia's policy of getting young
men working, saying that would make a huge difference. Hide said it
is time to stand up for the innocent party - the victims -
including the right to self defence.
Fitzsimons felt strongly that traumatised victims need compensation
and counselling but said it was crucial to get to young offenders
early and "nip it in the bud", including facing up to the people
they have wronged.
She said many young people in prison have alcohol, drug and mental
health problems and leaving them in prison longer will just make
them worse.
Dunne said NZ needs to move down the path of restorative justice
and needs a multi-party accord about alcohol and drug problems in
prisons. He agreed with Act that serious violent offenders should
be locked up for a long time and said there needs to be more use of
preventive detention as a sentence for serious offenders.
Dunne said more prisons will be needed for the most serious
offenders but more emphasis needs to be placed on keeping
non-violent offenders out of prison.
Peters said the economics of criminality suggest it is cheaper to
have offenders in prison than outside and the key is to deal with
entry level offenders who are on the way to being serious
criminals. He said police and other staff are needed to do the
job.
Anderton said it was vital to get to at risk families early. He
said it was a "big mistake" to lower the drinking age and the
Progressives support raising it again.
However Fitzsimons and Dunne said the problem with binge drinking
is with 13 and 14 year olds and we need to look at the behaviour
behind this.
The leaders agreed that poverty was a strong contributor to the
grim crime stats, with over 200,000 New Zealand children living
below the poverty line. They agreed that literacy and numeracy
levels needed to be raised as part of increasing the living
standards of the poorest of the poor.
Fitzsimons said Working for Families hasn't helped this group and
core benefits and the minimum wage needed to be raised.
Peters agreed about the need for a higher wage structure but said
far too many people were getting away with mayhem in their homes
and neglecting their children. He said the government has given out
money without demanding anything in return and making it clear it
is a contract.
Turia said the country needs to invest up front in in education,
health and social justice to make a difference.
Ironically Turia said Maori are used to living in quite poor
circumstances and might not notice the effect of the current
financial crisis as much as others.
Economy
Hide felt the key to managing the current economic situation was to
dump the Emissions Trading Scheme and get government spending and
red tape under control. Dunne said it was a time for calm heads and
a structured approach rather than a "series of rabbits out of hats
because of panic"
Fitzsimons said Green Party policies of cutting energy use and
cutting waste would lead to more profitability. And she took a
swipe at big executive salaries. She said money needed to be kept
circulating in the New Zealand economy by building houses and
investing in rail.
Peters said inflation is a major concern and advocated cutting GST.
He said the current crisis has been caused by "greed and unbridled
ideology". He said an export dependent nation needs to expand
wealth creation off shore and at home.
Peters said other countries are putting up immigration shutters
because they realise unemployment is going to rise significantly
but Anderton said NZ's economy is heavily dependent on food
production and food production is on the world agenda. He said NZ's
primary industry is in a good position to take advantage of
this.
The debate was mostly calm and orderly with the leaders outlining
their party policy largely without interjections and trying to talk
over the top of each other.
To watch the full debate click on the attached video.
