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Leaders clash in fiery debate

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Helen Clark and John Key have clashed in a fiery election debate, arguing over KiwiSaver, tax and mortgage rates, poverty levels, the environment and even who was shouting the most. 

The Labour and National Party leaders came face-to-face in the ONE News YouTube Election Debate, the first leaders' debate of the election campaign.

For the first time, viewers were able to submit their own pre-recorded video questions to the leaders under a special arrangement between TVNZ and YouTube. Journalists led by Mark Sainsbury also put live questions to them.

"You're not going to shout me down, John," Clark told her opposition rival at one point.
She talked over him too at times as he tried to hammer home his views.

Key came down hard on the government's stewardship of the economy, saying it's not growing at the rate it should and accusing Clark of "spending money recklessly".

But Clark slammed the previous National government's policies, pointing up Labour's record over the past nine years in government.

KiwiSaver, tax and the economy

The leaders locked horns over KiwiSaver early in the debate.

Key said National wants to make sure people join KiwiSaver and stay in the scheme, through the party's policy of 2% contributions from both employers and employees.  But Clark said what National is proposing to do to the scheme would strip away at least half of people's retirement savings.

A New Zealand man in London asked in a video question if Clark and Key will reduce tax so it's on par with the UK and Australia.

Clark responded that Labour is taking tax thresholds down, has already reduced tax and is supporting families through the Working for Families tax credits.

But Key hit back saying "Helen Clark's government took 25 days to raise taxes and nine years to cut them. Today in Australia, they have announced a $10b plus package."

Key said National will reduce the top tax rate from 39% to 37% and "would like it to come down below that over time."

He also criticised rises in interest rates and cost of living under Labour's management of the economy, as well as an increase in "core" public servants from 26,000 to 36,000.  He vowed to "cap" the numbers at that level but declined to be drawn on whether that meant public servants would be sacked.  Clark said it did mean that.

Key said more than 300 Carter Holt Harvey sawmill workers lost their jobs on Tuesday, blaming the government's economic management.

"Three hundred and twenty two people got fired today because our economy is inefficient.  Three hundred and twenty two people at Carter Holt Harvey lost their job because we haven't been managing the economy properly."

But Clark said they lost their jobs because of poor conditions for exporting timber at the moment and the fact that the house building sector is slowing.

The environment

The two leaders then clashed over the hot issue of government moves to regulate water pressure in showers in new homes.

Key said National won't tell people how much water comes through the shower and what light bulb to screw in, a reference to the government phasing out filament light bulbs in favour of energy-efficient bulbs.

But Clark said the shower regulation won't now be introduced.

"There's no more chance of telling people how much water comes through the shower than flying to the moon," she said.

Clark was adamant the government's Emissions Trading Scheme is necessary to fight climate change.

"If we are seen in the affluent markets that we value the most as a dirty greenhouse gas polluting producer of goods and services, we're finished," she said.

Key said Clark's rhetoric is amazing but he record is appalling.
 
"Yes, New Zealand has to play its part but we have got to be sensible about this. If we don't do that, in my opinion, it will be very negative for the economy," Key said. He argued reducing the country's "carbon footprint" should not be at the cost of jobs.

But Clark said the trading scheme is structured so that doesn't happen.

Law and order

Asked about curbing attacks on police, Clark said allowing police to use tasers will give officers more self defence.

Key said he supports tasers but attacks on police can be traced to drugs.

"I think you can trace it back to drugs and particularly P in our society. We've got to get out there and get tough on those gangs."

Key advocated year-long army-style boot camps for young offenders and promised more police on the streets.  But Clark said the government has already increased police numbers by 2,500 and will raise their numbers further if re-elected.

Asked how the leaders will protect shopkeepers from violent crimes, Key repeated National's policy to refuse parole for the worst violent offenders.

Clark said shopkeepers have to be able to use reasonable force to defend themselves.
Key maintained there's something very wrong when the person charged is the shopkeeper defending himself, referring to a recent incident in south Auckland.

Education

Asked if free student allowances are an unaffordable election bribe, Clark said Labour can move to a universal student allowance over the next four years.

Key said while there is unfairness in the present system he doesn't think we can afford a universal student allowance.  However, National would announce a policy on allowances.
Key said National's priority in education is lifting standards.

Key might have been the new boy on the block in his first leaders' debate, but he more than matched the seasoned campaigner Clark, setting the stage for round two on November 5. The sparks will be flying on Guy Fawkes night, three days out from the election.

The New Zealand public was asked to vote on who they thought did better in the ONE News YouTube Election Debate on Tuesday night. So who was more impressive...?  32.27% said Labour Leader Helen Clark, while 67.73% said National Leader John Key.

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